tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3850995487033495036.post6500462635019609958..comments2021-03-26T02:36:30.091-07:00Comments on Death or Obedience: What holds a Jehovah's Witness in the religion?Matthewhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08413266173326117804noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3850995487033495036.post-86475341191313964062012-09-07T20:16:16.729-07:002012-09-07T20:16:16.729-07:00Anyway, I've been babbling along now for long ...<br />Anyway, I've been babbling along now for long enough. I wish there was a way to relieve all JW's from their self imposed prison of the mind but alas there is no easy way to reach them. The consequences are too great. Loss of friends and family, loss of one's belief system, loss of eternal life on Paradise. The dream is just too enticing to give up, as well as all the other things you loose just by THINKING about opposing the Governing Body ie. Faithful and Discrete Slave...whatever.<br /><br />I will say this, even though I no longer have my friends (my family are not JW and are very happy that I'm out) and I no longer have the hope of the Paradise, I'm happy. I'm the happiest I've ever been in my life in fact. I've found love, I've started a business, I've been working on some major issues in my life that I never would have if I'd still been "in" etc....so the outcome for me has been very good and freeing. I still wish I knew the "truth" the real truth not the JW version. I would love to know the absolute truth about life, God, our purpose if there is one, etc..... But those are up until now and for the foreseeable future unknowable facts.... So we just soldier on.<br /><br />Be a good person, don't hurt anyone intentionally and when your end comes, maybe then all the questions will be answered, or maybe you just die and that's that? No way to know, but logic tells me this is it. Although I still hope there's more. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3850995487033495036.post-30031679213951496982012-09-07T20:15:54.009-07:002012-09-07T20:15:54.009-07:00Excellent post. I'm an ex JW. I "drifted ...Excellent post. I'm an ex JW. I "drifted away" as you say. In fact I did so many many times in the past so for me it wasn't anything abnormal. Of course a lot of well meaning "friends" tried to encourage me, etc..... for me in short: I was young and very vulnerable and I had always had a deep desire to please God. So when they came knocking (making a return visit on my dad, who was not home at the time) my heart and mind were very ripe for a Bible study. Through my own conscience (I really bought into it all) I decided this MUST be the truth and I became a witness. Through the years though I was always very depressed and always felt extremely guilty. I'm a perfectionist my nature and when I couldn't live up to God's standards I was very very hard on myself. Eventually to the point of suicidal thoughts. In the long run it came down to two choices for me: Kill myself and be done with it, or leave and never go back. You see, every time I had "drifted" away in the past (one time even dissociating myself for about 7 years and getting married, another long and boring story) I was always instantly relieved of my guilt and any thoughts of suicide. So the point came when I had the gun to my head (not in an actual attempt at killing myself but just to see what it felt like, and I found it utterly repugnant btw....) and at that moment it all became clear to me. In fact to this day (more than 5 years later) I can actually remember hearing almost an audible "click" or "snap" inside my head and the overwhelming feeling of "This is insanity!" and that was it. I have never been to another meeting since save for one Memorial and one or two meetings in an futile attempt to "save" my son (he'd gotten into some wrongdoing and I felt it was my fault since I had stopped attending meetings even though he still was). <br /><br />Sorry for the scatter brained post thus far......<br /><br />For the past 4 years or so I was really torn emotionally about the whole thing. I still felt for a long while that the JW's really had the truth. Such is the power of their mind control over members..... But recently I've really begun to think things through myself with my own mind, and I've just recently read Crisis of Conscience by Franz (well the first 100 pages just tonight) and it's been a real eye opener. <br /><br />At this point I really don't believe there is a God. At least not in the sense that any of the major religions of Earth make him out to be. I think if there really were an almighty god that had a definite plan for making us and for our future he would make it inescapably apparent to us all, and I mean ALL. Picture this: When every human being reaches his/her 13th year of age, he/she has a dream. In that dream he/she is introduced to God. God says "Hello, I'm God and this is my plan for humans and what I expect of you......" etc.... And EVERY human being who has ever lived has the same EXACT dream, in the same exact way on the very date of their 13th year of life. Of course I am not God, but this would completely solve all the issues out there with religion and God..... Why didn't God think of this? Why doesn't this happen? If I, a lowly human, can think of this simple solution then why hasn't God? Why must it all be so ridiculously complicated and violent? So many religions, so many different approaches. The only logical answer is that there is no God, at least not as defined by any religion. <br /><br />Continued...post too long.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3850995487033495036.post-86101809996671871012012-03-24T09:54:04.988-07:002012-03-24T09:54:04.988-07:00Hi Steve,
They're just another religion folks...Hi Steve, <br />They're just another religion folks. I sent them a letter last November (2011) dis-associating myself from them because in 1991 they broke their own law against joining the united nations. I told them that I was dis-fellowshipping THEM, and that they were no different from the churches.<br />They became very warm and friendly to me after that, smiling me on the streets, Eeek! All the while looking for something to condemn me for. So I put up christmas decor just to get them off my back. Nothing worse than having them LIKE you, THEY COMMITTED ADULTERY TO JEHOVAH!<br />Now they're back to their self-righteous, pompous, worldly, harrassing, persecuting selves. Thank God!<br />They are not witnesses of Jehovah, but of The UNITED NATIONS; and good luck to them!<br />Each one to his own.<br />Remember, we're were not to give credibility to the worldly ones because their minds are blinded.<br />They only shun because they're afraid of rejection. Forgive them! Aww!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3850995487033495036.post-71176336848116774002012-03-24T09:36:25.128-07:002012-03-24T09:36:25.128-07:00This stockholm syndrome reminds me of the life of ...This stockholm syndrome reminds me of the life of black people in general, today not just JW's!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3850995487033495036.post-45582128857492255752011-11-22T20:01:33.608-08:002011-11-22T20:01:33.608-08:00When an Organization has it's members at a poi...When an Organization has it's members at a point where they can not question errors without expecting some sort of sanction. \\\\\\\\\ Freedom of speech has flown out the window. If the Organization believes in free speech and has uncompromisingly stood up for free speech. Then why take umbrage when it's members ask questions about the Organizations own errors?<br /><br />To have members at a point where they can not openly speak about such matters betrays what Jesus said,"you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."<br /><br />The spirit of the truth searches into and through all knowledge, if it can not stand alongside the knowledge of GOD then it is in error. And should be openly admitted.<br /><br />When an Organization will not openly admit it's errors, takes umbrage at those who question them oppression has begun.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3850995487033495036.post-56142042774745243732011-06-22T16:42:50.130-07:002011-06-22T16:42:50.130-07:00@Steve
Leaving will not lead to disfellowshipping....@Steve<br />Leaving will not lead to disfellowshipping. Shunning, probably, but not disfellowshipping. Being an ex-JW, I've personally been through this and I will say like FV said.. drifting is your best way out. Miss a few meetings now and then, and eventually miss them all and just make the memorial. I'm at the point where I'm completely out. I will say though that it will be very difficult at first to be shunned by people you love, but think of it this way. The people who don't shun you are the ones that love you for who you are, no matter what. Isn't it safe to say that those are the people you want as friends in the end anyway?<br /><br />cheers,<br />-ncAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3850995487033495036.post-80160811887361963932011-06-06T00:06:11.051-07:002011-06-06T00:06:11.051-07:00Hi Steve. The only immediate way out is to 'dr...Hi Steve. The only immediate way out is to 'drift.' It would be unwise if you have family who are baptised JWs to speak openly of your doubts. Matthew's judicial case also warns us also not to be lulled into speaking to 'well-meaning' elders who are all-too-willing to break a confidence to 'do their duty' about matters that are best kept private. Matthew's case is fully transcribed and available at http://thegoverningbody.org/. It is worth studying and learning from.<br /><br />FVAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3850995487033495036.post-86784009730594268302011-06-04T07:12:17.658-07:002011-06-04T07:12:17.658-07:00Thanks for posting this info.At present I am still...Thanks for posting this info.At present I am still in the organisation and attend meetings however my belief that there is a "faithful and discreet slave" class died some time ago.Logic and history nullify the societys claims regarding this. The date 1914 for the end of the Gentile times is also false based on fake chronology. The only reason I am still in is that to leave would lead to disfellowshipping and shunning.I have been a JW for 20+ yrs so all my associates are in the "truth". Theres no easy way out.Stevenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3850995487033495036.post-81973664986240783862011-05-25T05:04:22.540-07:002011-05-25T05:04:22.540-07:00Thanks for your comment FV and I wholeheartedly ag...Thanks for your comment FV and I wholeheartedly agree with what you have to say here. It's almost as if they are aware of the issues at stake and yet feel powerless to change. The Internet empowers people and is a vangaurd for free speech.High control groups , such as the Wtbs can do little other than demonise where they can certain "apostate" websites, without naming them of course. I hope that people do indeed have change in thinking you propose.<br />I read the article about breaking the "spell" and in fact it's hyper-linked in the article I wrote under the word spell. I believe rhetoric is one of the tools of control which modulates the thinking of those within the Watchtower. But if one becomes aware of such tactics then hopefully it can be nullified.Articles such as the ones under discussion can only help this to occur. <br />Matt<br /><br />25 May 2011 04:54Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3850995487033495036.post-9287312787083682902011-05-24T22:16:16.784-07:002011-05-24T22:16:16.784-07:00The psychology behind the desire to control the li...The psychology behind the desire to control the lives of others is not difficult to understand. The willingness to be bullied into submission in a free society is harder to work out. Stockholm Syndrome goes a long way in explaining the human phenomenon. The fact of the growing number of people who go online to find free expression while simultaneously hiding their identity is testament to the fear of the paranoid ‘judicial’ system they may have to face if discovered. You of all people, Matthew, should understand this.<br /><br />I find it fascinating that I too drew exactly the same conclusion as you have about the relationship between Stockholm Syndrome and this form of ‘discipleship’ a matter of months ago. This is heartening, because collectively there may be an awakening to the need for major change in the way we, not those who seek to control, must reshape our thinking.<br />At the moment I’m concentrating on what part religious rhetoric plays in this situation. http://thegoverningbody.org/breaking-the-spell-examining-the-power-of-religious-rhetoric/<br /><br />FVAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3850995487033495036.post-12437548460504330882011-05-23T08:18:21.731-07:002011-05-23T08:18:21.731-07:00@Javelin Thanks for reading and posting.
The watch...@Javelin Thanks for reading and posting.<br />The watchtower don't use physical coercion (other than threat of expulsion) to achieve their aims so therefore it must be a mental process at work on the mind of a JW.<br />The comparison with SS is quite striking in my view. Yes being different is one of their features and isn't unique among similar groups.<br />Fostering a feeling of being special is one of the hallmarks of a cult.<br />Now the point you ask about is more related to the fallacious reasoning the society employs rather than the mental process which SS describes.<br />For instance they use Circular reasoning:<br />We have the truth so because we believe we have the "truth" what we say must be taught as truth.<br />An example of an unsupported illogical fallacious argument.<br />Sometimes they use a whole list of some of the things you gave examples of to prove by verbosity i.e.: a rhetorical technique that tries to persuade by overwhelming those considering an argument with such a volume of material that the argument sounds plausible, superficially appears to be well-researched, and it is so laborious to untangle and check supporting facts that the argument might be allowed to slide by unchallenged.<br /><br />Getting people to believe and become dependant on such beliefs and fallacies however is the key. Once this is attained then a person may develop the mentality which could be similar to Stockholm Syndrome.<br /><br />The ability of the organistion to retain members is based on dependence on "mother" in the form of the org. And not wanting to lose the "life" a witness has built within, friends, family ,social life etc.<br />Hope that helps answer your points.<br />MattMatthewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08413266173326117804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3850995487033495036.post-37830238680402381662011-05-23T07:33:57.277-07:002011-05-23T07:33:57.277-07:00Charisian thank you for reading and posting. I don...Charisian thank you for reading and posting. I don't mind you linking at all and I checked out your blog, big *thumbs up* good work my friend!<br />MattMatthewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08413266173326117804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3850995487033495036.post-21152762110280165152011-05-23T07:25:57.532-07:002011-05-23T07:25:57.532-07:00I found this post thought provoking. Although I ha...I found this post thought provoking. Although I have often reflected on the extraordinary amount of control The Society has over its members, I've never equated it to Stockholm Syndrome. It's an interesting comparison to be sure. <br /><br />Although they seem very similar, the Society is much more subtle, and thus, much more dangerous.<br /><br />I think that a key part of what they do is to lead the person to believe that the proof that everyone else is wrong is simply that the Witnesses are different. Being different is a cornerstone to how they retain people. <br /><br />For example: <br /><br />- Does X other group vote? Then they are not the true religion. <br />- Does X other group celebrate a birthday? Aha! They are not the true religion. <br /><br />And so on. So, would you say that fits in to Stockholm Syndrome? <br /><br />(Note: there is no sarcasm in this post, I really wonder if you feel it does and if so how)Javelin1814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3850995487033495036.post-66934038303270165812011-05-23T01:10:40.533-07:002011-05-23T01:10:40.533-07:00Very interesting information and well thought out!...Very interesting information and well thought out! I hope you don't mind but I created a link on my blog to this post. Here is my blog:<br />www.lunaticfaith.wordpress.comAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com