Saturday 16 May 2009

Death or Obedience - The Podcast Part 7


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This is the final part of our second visit from two local elders.

In this podcast you'll notice the huge emphasis Jehovah's Witnesses put on their need to have an organisation to follow, an organisation that will place upon them an enforced unity of belief.

The elders stress their belief that only the 144,000 get the Holy Spirit and that they alone represent Jesus on earth today.

We come back to the issue of the United Nations. One of the elders had previously stated that the United Nations was "just the Beast". In this podcast you'll notice that he denies saying this.

I press one of the elders as to whether he would ever have any affiliation with the UN, notice how he responds.

The elders completely dismiss myself, my wife and my childrens' futures because we are no longer associated with the Watch Tower Society. We're also told that God is not with us, again because we don't believe the teachings of men in Brooklyn. Closeness to God is absolutely linked to the Watch Tower Society in the eyes of these elders, and sadly this is typical of most Jehovah's Witnesses.

The discussion turns from being about the teachings of the organisation to being about our personal character and the sort of people we are and will become. Interestingly, it's tacitly admitted that the lifestyle of the organisation can make you feel bad about yourself.


  1. this would be great if i could understand your accents lol... i mean no offense ;)

  2. Great podcast again Matt. So sorry you had to put up with elders and their double standard. They regularly spoke about not having the right to judge yet unashamedly told your wife that God is not with her because she's not part of the Org. Then after offending your wife and her relationship with God, they then have the nerve to act offended because you believe the Oranization is a false prophet!

    These elders clearly didn't realise how much they contradicted themselves in their desperation to uphold the Organization's position above Christ. Very sad.

  3. Every coin has two sides.

  4. How about this for a simple line of argument....
    Is the U.N. controlled by Satan as taught by the WTS? Answer: Yes.
    Do the WTS believe that the U.N. stands in opposition to God's kingdom? Answer :Yes
    Did they associate themselves with the U.N. on any level ? Answer : Yes
    Why would the Watchtower society in any way, shape , or form either as individuals or as a group get involved with the United Nations knowing what all Jehovah's Witnesses believe?


  5. I defend your right to believe that a request for access to an information archive is tantamount to association. I just disagree.

    Having played football many times with you and Mark, I wish you both all the best.

    I hope you find something more productive to do with the rest of your life than criticise the WTS with online chit chat.

    I'm sorry you feel you have wasted 35 years and are bitter about it.

    I hope you move on soon..........

  6. Hi Defender, firstly I feel with your above statement you are attributing a belief to me that I do not hold. My right isn't to believe that "a request for access is tantamount to association".

    My right is to believe that what I read in the WTS publications are honest statements of their position in relation to the U.N.

    They roundly condemn the U.N. as a tool of Satan in opposition to God's kingdom.

    The fact there are people like you and one of the elders I spoke to prepared to excuse their association with the U.N. on the basis that it was just for a library card, does not strengthen the Watchtower Society position but surely makes it worse. The fact it was done by their own admission to achieve this goal, and a relatively trivial one at that, shows that they were prepared to set aside all the counsel and prophecy taught about the U.N. just to get into a libray......Very poor.

  7. You have your opinion, I have mine.

    Take Care

  8. Correct Defender, you have every right to your opinion as do I.
    When it comes to facts though, the Watchtower Society were an N.G.O. of the U.N. for 10 years.
    I'm mot sure exactly who you are but I wish you all the best too.
    P.S. I have moved on. That's why I'm no longer associated with this organisation and I follow Christ as my leader.

  9. Personally I don't think that the UN involvement is a huge deal - the WTS made a foolish mistake (and have admitted it in letters to JWs , albeit they will never make a public apology - the WTS "don't do apologies") and they cancelled NGO membership when the Guardian published the article in 2001.

    There are bigger issues , as Matt made clear in his discussions. Looking forward to hearing the judicial cases.

  10. Hi Defender,

    I find it fascinating the way Jehovah's Witnesses are conditioned mentally to forgive and excuse in the Watch Tower Society the very things they condemn every single other Christian group for.

    If a Christian church is seen to be duplicitous or hypocritical, the Watch Tower Society (WTS) wastes no time in pointing this out in one of its publications. This then became the de facto mindset regarding that Christian group for all JWs.

    However, whenever anyone points out duplicitous or hypocritical behaviour on the part of the WTS, JWs quickly cry foul and dismiss the critic as bitter, misinformed or having some sort of agenda.

    The WTS claims to be God's sole channel of communication on earth. I think the Catholic Church makes a similar claim. The WTS have stated, with regards to the Catholic Church, that they should be open to examination and questioning with regards to the veracity of their claim. Yet, the WTS expects no such examination of their claim!

    You say;
    "I hope you find something more productive to do with the rest of your life than criticise the WTS with online chit chat."

    I suppose once the WTS admits that they are an uninspired, imperfect group of men who don't really have any more scriptural insight than that next person, then maybe it would be time to move on and stop criticising them.

    In reality, the WTS has actually admitted that. But they still don't tolerate in questioning or criticism. What sort of groups don't tolerate questioning of the leaders? What sort of groups expel dissenters? What sort of groups split up families as a test of loyalty to the leadership? The answer is CULTS.

    Internet chit chat? Maybe such chit chat will stop when the WTS ceases printing condemnatory articles about every single other person on the planet who isn't a follower of the Governing Body. 2 billion Christians, of which I and my wife are but 2, are regularly written of as being satanic, evil, "workers of lawlessness" and other such slurs.

    The WTS has no right to it's current 'throne'.

    You know that story about the wee boy and the Emperor's new clothes? Think about it...

  11. Hey Matt
    I heard all the pod casts and quite frankly am disgusted that i was ever part of this organisation. A few years ago I to was told to keep away from my mum and as a granny she was told to keep away from her gran kids thats when i realised it wasnt the truth brain washing and controlling people is wrong what happend to free will. Also it is a haven for sexual abuse and pedophiles a young sister came to me and told me her father was sexual abusing her I told elders they said they would deal with it low and behold they didnt go to the police they told the brother to repent and he lost privlages in the hall. I was appalled and left the organisation they pretend they are not aprt of the united nations and they clearly are . I believe their is a god and I will worship him the way I want and bring my children up my way not in away that treats them bad not giving them xmas or birthdays . This is a brilliant blog and I commend you for showing the elders for what they are as long as they get their numbers up they dont care who they hurt in the process good luck with living in the normal life its what you make it I am so much happier now I am not getting controlled. kind regards sharon gillespie xxx

  12. Thanks very much Sharon, It's my intention to expose the Watchtower Organisation and it's leadership and their followers for what they are and more importantly what they are not.For some their reason for leaving it is the duplicity in their involvement with the U.N. for others the way children are needlessly exposed to pedophiles within the group.
    For others the doctrines and false prophecies.
    I do not believe this group has ever been "God's Channel of communication" and those who do, need to be informed. I do believe this group is a esentially a publishing corporation with delusional aspirations far beyond any proof they have ever supplied. This group was started by one man remember and has grown to 7 million members. Not one prophetic statement C.T. Russell ever uttered or had printed came about, all have failed. And if C.T. had found "the truth" then why have the majority of his teachings been discarded? And none of his writings ever studied by Jehovah's witnesses?

    Well done for finding your way out Sharon and good luck with the rest of your journey in this life.

  13. I've listened to half these Podcasts so far and it's been a strange experience. I'm so proud of the both of you one one hand because you were so composed and eloquent in your Scriptural defense and in presenting your research and yet I also found it a hugely frustrating experience due to having to listen to the mindless, illogical and rude comments of these so-called "elders". They dismiss clear Scriptures when it suits them and ignore serious sins on the part of their religion while showing contempt for all other religions and hypocritically highlighting their sins. They are so blind. We are all so blessed to no longer be part of this destructive unchristian cult. Well done and thank you for taking and posting these recordings. They should serve as a valuable lesson.

  14. Matt, thank you for posting these. What a witch hunt. I had no problem understanding the accents. Guess being Canadian, you get use to all kinds. LOL. After being out of the JW's 11 years, I see they certainly have not changed their tatics. They still are out to being right no matter what and putting any of those who feel like they (the JW's) beliefs are not correct are so wrong. Sorry, but the JW's do not have an exclusive on God. God Bless you Matt & Family!!!

  15. Thanks anon and now there are full transcripts in english for any who do have a problem with the Scots accent.
    All the best too.